Posts Tagged ‘murder’

Abortion In The Eyes Of God Is It Legal Or Is It Murder?

Tuesday, July 5th, 2011

How to understand Exodus 21:22,23: "If men fight, they actually encounter a pregnant woman and her children out, but without a fatal accident, it is imperative to impose a compensation according to the owner of the woman will require it, and he will give it through the judges. But if a fatal accident, then you must give soul for soul,

I'm sure God approves of abortion of the child of the devil.

Abortion is possible before 40 days of life of the fetus. Aude 40 days then the soul is breathed into the fetus and abortion is prohibited.

- Religious wars, in the eyes of God, is it legal or is it murder? – When god God asks Abraham (legend I reassure you) to kill his son, is it legal or is it a murder by proxy in the eyes of the applicant (god)? – When God gives Cain kill Abel, is it legal or is it a murder in the eyes of god?

Hi! If it's an accident, an accident and no one is responsible for an accident. But abortion is never an accident, it is a voluntary act (abortion: Abortion). And if it is voluntary, it is murder … – "There will be in your country or one miscarrying or barren. I will fulfill the number of thy days. "(Exodus 23:26). … Because God has commanded! Amen.

Bonsoir Fatal accident is said twice in these two verses. abortion, crime Oh how consent can not be an accident, a crime of murder clearly intended and desired, the mother wanted for X reason (sometimes called by the parent) do not bother to give life without giving up sex. sexual intercourse was made and intended by the Lord God between a man and a woman consecrated by God (who is the inventor of marriage, Genesis 2:24 Ephesians 5:31) 8:13 p.m. Do not murder. is a commandment of God's law Jacques 2 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles against one, he is guilty of all. 2:11 For he who said, Thou shalt not commit adultery, said also, Thou shalt not kill. But if you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. crime is to kill a living being with the desire to intentionally kill him. even babies are considered viable because it would have no abortion. babies are considered viable as well, for without abortion auraientnormalement he lived. This takes us back a little massacre of the innocents Herod decreed that the demon to kill the newborn Christ, fortunately without success. The accident is rather seen in the case of an unwanted abortion by the mother

What is abortion? Abortion is the expulsion of an embryo or a fetus, under normal conditions, is not viable outside the womb Jehovah He sees an embryo as a human being? "For you knit me (…) you in the womb .(…) Your eyes saw my embryo, and were written in your book all its parts, in terms of days when they were trained and where there was not one of them. " (Psaumes139 :13-16) He who Jehovah is the origin of life (Acts 17:28), the life of a child in the early stages of its development, just after the design has a very large value, so a pregnant woman who was knocked should be compensated and if there was death of the fetus so it was the Mosaic law which came into effect "soul to soul" (Deuteronomy 19:21), a life been removed, another life had to compensate the loss put an end voluntarily (no miscarriage or accident) in the life of a fetus. '(Psaumes139 :13-16) He who Jehovah is the source of human life (Acts 17:28), the life of a child in the early stages of its development, just after the design has a great value, so a pregnant woman who was knocked should be compensated and if there were fetal death so it was the Mosaic law which came into effect "soul to soul" (Deuteronomy 19:21), a life was taken away, another life had to compensate the loss Ending voluntarily (no miscarriage or accident) to the life of a fœtusest considered by the God of the Bible as a murder ..

How Can A Man Be Against Abortion?

Friday, May 27th, 2011

Is not women decide? or rather, each woman? By what right a man can decide his ban? as rightists in the 70s? Is not that disgusting?

Whatever the opinions of others.

You still have to explain to young women that abortion is NOT a contraceptive. Abortion is a traumatic operation and should be practiced only as a last resort and especially without delay.

This is obviously not up to him. But see the case he dreams of being a father … but yes it does exist, it will try to persuade his girlfriend, we understand that. Once I do an abortion or abortion was a crime we were talking about abortionist … this time not so long ago and people still consider it a crime and would like to impose their beliefs on others .. Besides few services do hospitals and many are going abroad.

Precisely because they are men ………. And machismo still reigns almost by atavism! So it is for or against the woman who is master of his stomach and should remain in any case a man must decide for us! and those who are backward and cons are suffering from acute obscurantism! PS not that right-wingers of the 70s sorry! The MLF had its militant leftists v bcp as we say today "! PS2 and I'll remember it the right to vote that made the abortion law to free Ms. Veil and Giscard who tremendously supported! "I like that does not distort the facts or history

I think that man should not impose its decision. But the woman either. If the "father" wants to keep the child, is his right, and I find it disgusting on the part of the girl have an abortion anyway. Conversely, if the "mother" wants to keep her unborn child is just as disgusting on the part of man to force her to abort. It must be a mutual decision. Aty, be less aggressive, you might think you want to exclude men of any decision "because they are just men." Is ambiguous, be careful. Moreover, whether or not your point of view, we must consult the man and woman in this kind of decision. Now, ethically speaking, it is also a right. A man would not have the right to condemn this practice, but if a woman? If this man is disgusted by abortion, it is his opinion, point bar. Same thing for a woman. As is their right to believe in God or not. After, we must know the difference between defending his point of view, and impose his point of view …

really?? they do have the right to have an opinion on the pretext that they are men?? and can be put aside a certain Mary there is a little more than 2010 years to a woman is pregnant must be a man.

it is for the woman should return the decision to abort or not, anyway, the desire for children that are living in two. but ultimately that is the body of the woman and her child that it 's act. that is difficult enough in this question if we add more moral judgments that is hell.

Babies Spend A Good Time When They Are About Abortion?

Tuesday, March 15th, 2011

Following the responses referring to the fact that this is not a baby, and there is no conscience, one may ask: What is the difference between abortion and murder of an adult "not conscious "asleep or unconscious? in both cases the victim "is not conscious." but does that justify murder?

I think not as they die … Einstein @ can not be a baby but still a human being alive … And … @ Kowai you know that? Evidence to the contrary? Although in the minds of proponents of the culture of death that. If I burn my hand I want you to prove you wrong … But you want one? Doctors have said previously abortionists. We kill the baby in the womb of his mother made desperate efforts to escape the deadly vacuum … @ Boudou you're to be pitied. A pregnant woman says she is expecting a baby … the heart beats at 3 weeks …

? What baby? At this stage it is called a fetus, not a baby.

It is an embryo before 12 weeks and it did not even realize what is happening. Demeter proves me wrong.

Issue-oriented or not ….. FYI, women abort an embryo that is to say the outline of a human being who is far from the constitution of a baby so caution in appellation given that you do not mind ……

At the time of abortion, human embryo that looks suspiciously like chicken! The baby does after birth!

What is the difference between abortion and murder of an adult "not aware" asleep or unconscious? I want to say out of context question, since there is someone who sleeps up completely so that when a woman aborts, she miscarried a baby but not an embryo! Ie at this stage there is no sensation possible. There's not even the cells which detect cold hot node, the pain of comfort, etc … And I am absolutely against the term "murder" when talking about abortion. We must get into their heads that when a woman aborts is not for fun, okay? Then, if she took this decision is that somewhere it is also best for the child. Why make the world a being who is not expected and therefore may suffer all his life when he has nothing to do? (And sometimes, the mother also has nothing to do). Abortion to save lives (ironically), this I am sure and it's still a great achievement for the Status of Women.

LOL!

Argumentative Essay On Abortion?

Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011

jaimerais have an argumentative essay dun expose oral Lavort

Fortunately, "your statement" is oral because if it was written, you'd be wrong party. Unless it's a keyboard problem, in this case you will find the apostrophe key – 4 tiny -

I think I could do but it's not my job, I will not.

you will find supporters in private clinics, and opponents in hospitals.

Hello, What Do You Think Of Abortion?

Tuesday, January 11th, 2011

I am a foreigner. Abortion is illegal in my country. Thank you

It should be legal or not just by individual conscience and not by passing a law @ Baguerra is what to say

when I see the number of contraceptive that is, frankly, I find it appalling. nothing to do with the religious side. but when I see it has all the possibilities of contraception and there is still much abortion is really pathetic.

It is preferable to use means of contraception but if missed it is in good medical condition that abortion will be done

Are You For Or Against Abortion? And Why?

Tuesday, January 4th, 2011

Neither one nor the other is a choice that a person must fulfill itself.

Whether you are for or against is not the point! It should be decided by a single parent, out of wedlock and by both, in the context of marriage!

I am against! I fear God. Abortion is one that you kill Eric.

the risk of bringing everyone against me, I'd say I'm pretty cons but not so absolute. I lack of time but I will briefly summarize, it is an interesting topic: why am I against? : Simply because for me, from the moment the human cell is created and "fed" to evolve … is a human. What right people can decide what can be alive or not. most abortions after a relationship without a condom … you have to take after a while. in France we are more inclined to "help abortion" rather than "helping to elevate the potential child." without security, I can understand a woman knocked up after a rape, for example wants an abortion, because too traumatized psychologically. and honestly if it happened to a member of my family I understand that abortion and I'm not going to judge it.

I do not judge but when you're old enough to understand, we assume its responsibility and it is covered if you do not wish to be parents after situations where it cela.Je'm not because it is murder since the child is la.il there the morning after pill prevents the egg from which hatched before cela.Bref, I may not be the right person to answer this question.De Nowadays there is information on contraceptives and j ' I find it hard to be pour.Avoir relations is that it is not impossible to be pregnant or catching a disease.

AGAINST me, all pregnant whatever be his state of legal marriage or not (breach, must keep that BB and take his big, c a human life created by Almighty God, c a great sin to do so, c a god killing himself preserves several severe punishment.

Cons, if you do not want a child we protect ourselves! According to what is rape there is something else … In Portugal, we do not ditch it.

I am for maintaining its legalization. After the choice is up to the woman concerned and I do not arrogated to myself the right to give my opinion on it. I would like to make two points in the arguments "against" I've read. -Regarding the fact that a human cell … certainly bright. Take a cotton swab, collect the cells within your cheeks, put in culture: your cells will live, will feed recur. Are we so far have created a conscious life? I doubt it. Evacuate an embryo is indeed evacuate cells of human origin but nothing to do with the killing of a small human. FYI, the sperm and ova are also living and nobody laments the genocide produced by each ejaculation … "The fact that we should" assume ". Certainly. But I want to remind everyone is entitled to a sexual life, and it only takes one problem once and for contraception become pregnant. And then the curse! apparently. When you read some of the arguments, we feel. When you read some arguments, it seems derevenir centuries back when the sexuality of unmarried woman was punished by the fact of being pregnant. Two notes: where is the man in all this? Second point: the stereotype of women who use abortion as a contraceptive method (echoed by many trolls on this site) is a cliché. The operation itself is traumatic on many levels: no one likes to abortion.

I am both for and against abortion. For because I think women have the right to decide whether they wish to give life or not. There are some tricky situations or for a whole lot of reason, it is preferable that pregnancy should not expire. Take the example of a woman after rape, accidentally falls pregnant. Maybe she did not want to see the birth of his child abuser! I am also against this practice because even if the procedure is done within the first 12 weeks, I think it's still a "murder."

I am for abortion for the person concerned is something visceral not want to keep an unwanted child as strong as that of a grudge. Mothers not in time n'hésitaitent to brave death rather than keep it. On the other hand I worked in a unit where mothers mother baby be with serious psychiatric disorders preceding arriving or decompensation postpartum mothers or drug addicts and when we see a baby that lives in these conditions can not be thinking that he had better abort than to spoil the life of a being from the start.

I am neither for nor against abortion. Why? For I am not judgmental, nor would also what others are doing. Life has taught me.

I am very happy that Simone Veil has allowed the legalization of the act to enable women to have a choice today. While yesterday so many women have died after obscure procedures performed in deplorable conditions and in utter shame. I do not claim "for" abortion because it is an act fraught with meaning, a choice often difficult to do, feel guilty, but at least the women who make this choice are treated with dignity and respect. it remains the most important for me as it was written by others before: respect the choices of others, because we do not know the circumstances that led them there and nothing allows us to judge them. @ Dding: Some (s) of you speak of rape, then of course there is not his fault, so the woman would have the right to abortion "with dignity". From what you say all women are on duty to control his birth and his body to 100% and the defects guilty (murder!). Are you women say that? And. Are you women say that? Etpensez you can control everything in your life? Are women the only ones responsible for birth control? And they are men who in the affair? Ha that reminds me of "child mothers" these little girls aged 15 who found themselves pregnant nuns in order to expiate their sin and who mostly had to deliver in the worst conditions and worst pain, to "teach them" .. …. Read some answers I wonder if we evolved. @ Jout2: I do not believe that abortion can be a means of contraception. Abortion has often said iterative morbid causes a form of internal scarring if you prefer. Grief that is impossible to make a life debt to the mother who must not be made, there are brief explanations for this repeated gesture (and especially it makes sense) but it has nothing to do with contraception . It's much more subtle than that.

cons

to find myself in front of the painful choices and opting for life, so I am unable to trial. before this situation presents, I thought it was a priori a difficult choice but doable, seeing my children today and the happiness he gives me, it seems inconceivable to me, at any rate I do not judge those who do it but apart from abortions due to a defect of contraception, many women use abortion as a contraceptive, or parcque more and more men marching past this responsibility is a child c is for this reason that I find abortion abuse. @ B; http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/ecole.michelet.valence/CDlavie/images/foetus_2mois.gif a cluster of cells??

Women have fought for centuries to finally dispose of their bodies is a right and law, return to the days of knitting needles in the basement … no thank you the death rate was huge at that time , then let it be monitored and medicalization and a very good thing then you should know that contraception is not 100% effective, and even accidents still happen in our time, I am for the fact that women do what they want their body without being accountable to anyone at all but an abortion is not a contraceptive

For when it can avoid an abused child. Cons for those who use abortion as a contraceptive … and it exists!

I'm for because all the women who use them are not all married layer down there, as he was insinuating in the comments before. I would not have done for my daughter, because knowing that his little heart was already beating, I could not bring myself to, but the issue arose anyway because it happened despite contraception and not at all (at all) under the program (still with our parents, etc.) Although for me it is certainly taking the life of a small being, sometimes, it might be better rather be born into the wrong conditions and it is unfortunate and his parents.

People who are against a terrifying idiocy. As a woman does not want the child, she should not keep it. It does not raise a child who does not want. I remind all the morons that within three months, the embryo is a cluster of cells, not human.

Abortion has always existed. The difference is that now it is practiced in a medical framework which greatly reduces the risks such as infertility and sepsis, although the risk is not zero. This is a very good thing. I would resort to an abortion? Surely not. Also, I've never found across this question. So it is easy to say what we would or not But abortion is a right and must remain so. The men who condiment, they often forget that the male sex is also responsible for a pregnancy and often defile, leaving the woman alone in front of the pregnancy. Their opinion will count the day they have a uterus

Either for or against specific response to each …..

For freedom of every woman to decide for itself what it wants to do with the context.

I am against it because it is a crime

I am against abortion have already had one .. I suffered and it should exist only for rape or stuff like that but should not abort girls nonnnnnnnnnn

What Is The Difference Between Abortion And Murder Of An Adult "not Aware" Asleep Or Unconscious?

Friday, December 24th, 2010

in both cases the victim "is not conscious." but does that justify murder?

In the case of abortion you kill some cells if it is in early pregnancy in the case of an adult you kill a conscious person who has lived There is no mention of victim in the case of a person, fertilized ovum is not regarded as being a person

A fetus is an embryo, not a human being.

You really poses the question here? It's your best argument? The difference between an embryo and an adult? One is a been fully developed and autonomous. The other a small cluster of cells unable to survive outside the womb. One is already alive, the other not. One is a human being, the other not. Priestess @: I accept your argument ^^… I concluded that … Does it can still be semi-solid cannibalism?

1) Remove cells that are not even yet become a "person", and 2) kill "a human being" itself are two different things. In the first case, it allows the woman, who is free to do what she wants with her body and not be forced to have a dependent child if she does not feel ready or if n 'has the capacity (or even if she does not want, freedom requires a large number of possibilities). In the second, it is murder – because it is a human being born – and it will incur a prison sentence. I do not know how to explain it better. @ Sun Palestine: maybe you're upset for rape? It's weird as a principle, each his own eh. You're all well understood my words … I'll rephrase … you know many people who are scrambling to break / be raped? Rape is sexual intercourse involuntary victim (usually the woman) … if it results in a pregnancy, you must keep the poor victim the child of a psychotic monster? That we can understand ^ ^

The same as between oral sex and cannibalism.

That's 2 lives destroyed. The fetus is a living being called to life as a man or woman. the embryo is also a "living" in a human formation in the womb. Killing a person is unconscious, asleep, unconscious is murder in the same way that killing a conscious person. Do not compare abortion to murder someone who is already living outside the womb. An abortion is an abortion but it ends with a promise of life as a human being viable. You should better define what a "murder." In fact what do you really know your question so difficult?

An abortion is "murder of a man but not an embryo: an entity resembling a strawberry that has no independent life. A baby breathes, smiles, participates in its own way to human life. Second difference: The embryo is a part of the body of the mother. It's still up to her "his belly". Third difference: The mother is participating in a network of relationships and responsibilities far greater than that of the embryo. Her Life has a preponderance over that of the embryo. A death is a death but all the deaths were not the same psychological weight. An abortion is always a pain and trauma but obvious question is where is the "least evil ", the" least suffering ". The suffering of a woman who can not bear the idea of taking a child takes precedence over" souffreance (?) of an embryo.

the mother may abort the fetus if ONLY endangers her life or it would be premeditated murder. I like the philosophy of my neighbors above that justify abortion just to avoid liability to have a future baby to be conceived is jostling to become responsible and it sneaks! @ V For: Go! very good question you ask is, I admit that it is not easy to keep a baby after being raped, but I confess that do not know the view of my religion in such cases. Good question!

Human life must be respected whatever their stage of development from egg to the extreme age

earlier question .. I already answered you're a guy, leaves women a choice. the day your sister will break the day … or your wife will wait for a child with serious birth defect or disease rendering it non-viable …. will stop at the prudishness

abortion is a crime!

Frankly, you'd better not meddle with what you watch, and stop with all your "issues" anti-abortion that are used strictly for nothing .. wind is all that! legal abortion or not has always existed, and it's not that kind of talk to the jerk who will change anything .. Women are masters of their body, whether you like it or not, and the risk of disappointing you, there was no justification for anything! What do you think it's really the least of our worries …

It's terrible to see people speak of a living being growing at a phenomenal rate to become a child as a vulgar piece of gadget that is available as desired! Where is the will of the child in an abortion? Where is the right of the unborn child and live? Abortion not dispose of his body, have another one who can not pronounce. Of course it's terrible as a gesture for those women who went into action, it is with a heavy heart she did so, the fear directs, and this often causes irreparable injury! Frankly, it's time to ask if he had not been better for these women to keep the child rather than abort. I remind you that the deadline for abortion varies by country! Abortion is legal in two months in France 5 months in other countries. Have you ever seen the echoes and the child in the womb at 2,3,5,6 months? Well, in one case we are talking about children, and in another a gadget to remove annoying! It is completely. Have you ever seen the echoes and the child in the womb at 2,3,5,6 months? Well, in one case we are talking about children, and in another a gadget to remove annoying! It complètementhypocrite. Abortion is not a solution and millions of lives are suppressed for years under the pretext of freedom of women. I am a woman and it disgusts me to see such arguments! Abortion is source of problems, suffering, trauma, and made women believe that it will solve their problem. And precision: the abortions after rape are a tiny minority, it does not even represent 1%.

So if I understand correctly, you consider the embryo as a cluster of cells. But in this case, you are too! You too are composed of cells connected together, each having a specific role. The embryo also. You and him are not "clump of cells" but a living organism. I have thousands of arguments proving that life begins not at birth, but the encounter between an egg and sperm, that magic moment when the draft begins life: already, the child has his own agenda genetics. The body sends messages to prepare for this newcomer. Another argument, the dependence of this Peita man to his mother. But an infant is it not as dependent as he? And you, resist you naked without food in Antarctica? No. We all depend. And kill the weak is a crime, cowardice. MISUNDERSTOOD LIFE IS NOT A FORCE!

Why The Murder Of Babies Through Abortion Is Not Punished?

Friday, December 24th, 2010

While a simple little offense can cost the prison @ peace and hug: I do not know the law on abortion. @ Kermito3: yes the finger pointers are the same in both cases! @ Arrial: yes but the sperm is not a baby! It is a cute baby! @ John: yes, I've never understood how people can live with it every day! especially since the Pope did not suggest we!

Because it's not babies but embryos. If you want you can vote to ban FN is the only party that offers french @ francis papa noel Why not ban masturbation is also not a pure genocide? And a condom that prevents having children? 16 Benoit is that you? @ الخافض If you quote, it happened in Brazil, 9 years old girl raped by her step father, the Church has excommunicated the mother and the doctors of the hospital after the abortion of the small . Nothing against the rapist … @ Peace & Hugs He knows he wondered why Dr. D'@ Sirra after the survey 50% of french are Christians (baptized in fact) on this number in half believes in God. In fact France is 25% Christian

because a feutus not still alive.

and you know who is behind this act? a person who says being rescued from a death camp and what religion is it this person? biensur it is part of the chosen people to massacre the human hope

Because a fetus is not a human baby or a summer. It is therefore not murder. Then you can replay the Olympics in 1974, you will find additional evidence.

Not smart your question … You must be a good man to put it together. Know that most women through abortion will remember for life. No need for punishment. Let those who condemn abortion rather give their energy to help those who want to keep their child but do not have the means, it will certainly be more productive. Why stigmatize women who have abortions, while it is largely the company that grows? Let us remember that even when people treat unwed mothers whores, and treat "abortionists" of crime are the same! There is no such inconsistency, and a big lack of Christian charity in there?

A minor girl has an abortion in secret after being raped, the girl must be punished for what? Having to carry a baby? To have been violated? During that time, a pedophile is released in search of new prey ..

you know the abortion law of Passage @ @ francis: tell me what thee know francis?

… And when you get started: how do you do for victims? …

can not be aborted after three months of pregnancy in this country … At 3 months we are talking about embryos, not fetuses, it is 7 mm, and this is in no viable outside the mother's body. can abort for many reasons which remains a private affair of a couple or a single woman. when the child is there, it is murder pure and simple, see access to abortion.

alas it is for you trot later

France is 80% Christian "after Titeve, Pope condemns abortion in the name of this religion, we agree? When we talk about abortion is the fate SECULARISM you agree? So what is the Pope?

wetouwne in bwousse nadidon pwesentement

You have to regret the time abortionist? Not me!

What About Abortion? Is Sometimes The Best Solution?

Friday, December 3rd, 2010

There was indeed not to judge people, but we can judge moral acts in my opinion!

It is a decision specific to each and everyone. I have my own opinion on that, but it is mine. What is certain is that we have no right to be judgmental about women who have abortions. @ There are certain situations in my eyes, where abortion is inevitable: Rape, a serious illness (pregnant women, so that u said cancer), irreversible handicap of the child. What I find hard to bear is that some women take abortion as a contraceptive … again, this is my personal opinion.

Hanukkah sameah. It was the woman to decide freely and nobody else.

I c is not support abortion kills

Abortion is true that it is not a good solution, but it depends on the mom, because if for example it has been violated do not think I kept this baby would make her happy then the only solution would be aborted instead of attacking her child later.

Everything depends on conditions and personal history. It's not the worst solution. The abandonment of the births in x are much worse in my opinion.

it is impossible to judge (and also very stupid) without being directly concerned is a woman's right to choose to give birth or not can advise, support it but not the judge Sometimes it's best solution, sometimes it does not ballast And even though this is not the best to our eyes, it is the decision of the woman and one must respect it @ abortions when the situation (cancer, deformity, rape, endangering the lives of women ..) is critical I say ok and glad that it is abortion (or morning-after pill) as a means of "contraception" because the girl and the guy knows not take precautions Ya shots feet on the bottom that are lost and more without a condom -> risk of STDs Dou irresponsible behavior has my eyes!

finally an original question ….

so in several ways: rape, not about to assume, too young, or have a child for the father passes the knot

For me. Everything depends on the situation in which there is a woman is alone in taking this decision because she has to live his life with his choices and confront his conscience .. I know women in my life who have aborted even a certain age. But I do not allow myself to judge or to lecture.

It is a very personal matter, we do not have "to pass moral judgments, all his life, if you're good with yourself, all right, what right have you to judge another? I respect other so i do not judge.

in some cases, I think so but, my God, this decision must be difficult.

She Said That Abortion Is Dangerous! Es It To The Risk Of Dying Beyond?

Tuesday, October 19th, 2010

we can see that you take issue with some nostalgia ……… well I shed a tear!

yes you do not know. and why do you kill him? It is a life after all. And if there was one only that God intended for you as a child?

leads do not want in your galères.tu kill her or what?

prepared to say goodbye when you

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