Muslim, secular and feminist .. contradiction Yet there are feminist Christian, Jewish and Muslim practitioners. What makes one believe that the process of liberation and empowerment of women should remain the preserve of militant secularists (not religious)? If the Muslim activists for a party of extreme-left as it denounce sexism, polygamy, forced marriages, campaigning for the right to abortion and supported for best fight, a macho interpretation of their religious texts that they know and proclaim corrupted by tradition, we would may be misguided to dismiss them from office. At least admit that Islam Wahhabi misogynist ultra-Orthodox suits everybody,) We ground layman, even if the struggle for their rights within a community of believers tends to warm our skin anticlerical and anti-dogmatic, religious practice does not become involved in public affairs. Rest veil, yes,. Remains the veil, yes, c'estennuyeux, it shows. Christine Boutin does not ostentatiously large wooden cross around his neck, yet soft as a feminist, a beneficiary of advances that have led militant women in power, she was a member of Parliament and a gouverment then it is affiliated with Opus Dei and fundamentally opposed to the achievements of feminism that his faith and his commitment disapprove (abortion, condoms, etc. ,..). It should not be the only or among politicians in office, or among those who would l 'be hiding under their burqas mental archaeo-Christians are of recommendations and measures to bring the woman to her role as mother and guardian of the home (which is not even the case of "veiled "in question) Not to mention consistent with Trotskyites themselves, not the subject, which is the difference .. and where is the problem, you disappoint me a little, anyway .. Zelda, Morgana, Abuse, Amyliana, year, make a play, Fugenjikko? installing anti-Islamophobic Election. Zelda, Morgana, Abuse, Amyliana, year, make a play, Fugenjikko? installing anti-Islamophobic deBesancenot electioneering, it's heavy, sure, but nobody, really nobody to tell me "that girl is the best head of a party anticapitalist usually disinclined to compromise and full of enthusiasm activist, rather than wallow in your community? "Others talk politics in the republican framework, their moral and religious values without which it is easily decrypted or easily decipherable, so it is forty centimeters of tissue that would make a difference? good. .

The color of her scarf, right?? Ok, I go out …: o)

What now for the Trotskyists "opium of the people"? We would like to know, although they have been an idea ..

in any case to the buzz in the media did not find better

No headscarf is not that a piece of cloth, it is a sign of religion very marked besancenot pretends to defend secularism, it is anti curate see his declarations, he chose to talk, I hope it will do him not happy …………. c is a zero

Religion is the purely private domain. An elected the Republic is supposed to have a neutral appearance. Women can not recognize itself in the person of another who is veiled, it is obvious. In my opinion, the veil is not really a sign of emancipation, and you can intellectualize the debate as much as you want. It is completely free to walk around with a veil, but certainly not in time as representative of the people in a secular republic. Moreover, very few young Magrébin veil. Who will recognize in the person of this woman, I wonder … Finally, the NPA, whose number of members has dropped by 1,000 in year 1, use this girl so instead touted, hoping surely win votes in neighborhoods, increasing slightly over the stigma of the latter. Besancenot has a beautiful ball …

For me, the scarf itself, first as a symbol of submission to the male gaze, totally inconsistent with a claim of feminist equality (or when imposing the veil men) and other is a stigma denoting membership of a religion. I would also be shocked by the nomination of a nun in a cornet or a rabbi to curl.

it is not shocking that a member of a list has a head covering Fusse there a scarf or a voile.Ce is shocking is that the NPA made a front and a dangerous religious overtones.

It is much easier and your reasoning is not logical that those who want to preserve their customs. We are a people with our traditions and our ways of living. We are happy with it and we do not like that they are changed or transformed by other customs that come from elsewhere that we reject and we especially want to impose by force while the majority of citizens do not approve.

See our little debate on this subject with Yin Yang Shu: http://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index; _ylt = Amtnozyds5FYhkGd0aGcf4k4Agx.; _ylv = 3? Qid = 20100203121720AAPaUfV There is still a contradiction on the port scarf (a symbol of submission of women) … Muslim feminists are, but how are the piece of cloth religious symbol of machismo? Anyway, we should ask him … Otherwise, Boutin feminist?? This is the best of the year! This woman is a violation of secularism and women's right to her alone … And finally, apart from a stroke as worthy of Sarkozy, what is the NPA? The government debate on the burqa after leaving its debate on national identity turn anti-Islamism primary, NPA us out of his hat showing a candidate's religion! Apart exploit Muslims, the NPA does nothing! Some of Dati said it was "the Arabic service" from the UMP, that the NPA has hers … It's pathetic! Besancenot uses the same method as. It's pathetic! Besancenot uses the same method he says quecelui fight … That would have been too complicated for him and his party to campaign solely on the ideas? If Marx was there, he would break the shit out Besancenot …

The NPA is desperate to raise some votes in Marseille and in the 93. The presence of very ugly scarred rapper whose name I forget was not enough. A veiled woman (enfoulardée) is a woman who prefers his religion, namely, submission to Allah and Islam is not really avant-garde in the struggle of women. You made a comparison with Ch Boutin but fortunately these 2 guys are not the only alternative. These are just the 2 extremes of the same problem.

What shocks me deeply is the small detail which states that the veil is thin "… It peaked there. Anything that can get angry in power is good, even jeopardize secularism. It's really small.

Olivier Besancenot forgot to ABC of Marxism …. Religion is the opium of the people ….. and that the headscarf is a symbol of submission to a religion in whatever she may have more patriarchal and reactionary …… thus the opposite of feminism, in doing so he has to deal a blow to icepick to Leon Trotsky.

Feminists in our countries do not veil, nothing that we see with this crude maneuver to win new supporters. Then we're in a secular country then the NPA goes against the values of our country. @. Fair (e) Play ► ♫ I think exactly like you. Otherwise you're right religion and feminism are not always opposed, for example, Sister Emmanuelle was declared feminist: The nun said she was not "a saint", is described as "vindictive", "angry" and "a bit feminist . The feminist just bothers me, it is feminist or you do not, but I read his book (confession of a nun) and I confirm it was a true feminist. Source: http:// www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2008/10/20/01016-20081020ARTFIG00346-sur-emmanuelle-est-morte-.php

In politics, image is everything. And they know it. It is indeed the problem.

Atheists who are the promotion of a religion which rejects the disbelievers, it falls from the clouds.

Arzal hi! Instinctively, I want to say "Fuck". God does not exist and the republic is secular. Then, on reflection, I've kept my position: "Fuck." As the lady replied to a reporter: "I am not here to talk about religion, but policy. The republic is secular, she knows. Just tell him that God does not exist.

"What makes one believe that the process of liberation and empowerment of women should remain the preserve of militant secularists (not religious)?" I do not think that at all. Secularism is to practice their religion freely in private. This woman is Muslim, but no worries there, it involves religion in politics is one of the things that I blame him. State and religion must remain separate, I would like. In the more use of existing controversies about religion, national identity, and all these things that most troubled of reason once again resurfaced, and again by electoral calculations. And I condemn the allusions displaced religion from which they come. When Sarkozy made his remark about the "moral superiority of the priest from the teacher" or made the sign of the cross before the cameras, it does not honor the secular republic that is supposed to serve. Second thing : perhaps the veil is a symbol. Second thing may be that the veil is not a symboled'opression for this woman, she has not personally been forced to wear it and it was chosen due to its own interpretation of religion. But … is the foremost female politician, the candidate who appears veiled. For many women in France and worldwide is used as a way of bid and indoctrination. Many women are likely large, sometimes their life to be able to wear what they want without being judged. Making policy is to send a message. Perhaps there are other women who paradoxically lead some social activities for women and veil, which will see evidence that the veil is a symbol not fixed, but "what makes" . The idea could defend themselves, but must take account of reality: the veil is a way of oppression against women. In some families, girls are conditioned at puberty or even earlier. It was fortunate to be in a country where, theoretically, we did not face that. What message does this candidate. What message does this candidateenvoie it to these people? He must play down the veil? Precisely not. it can be serious.

nothing shocking about it except their challenge to try to make our country their own. Our governments, by dint of procrastinating and as we go, they will more or less long term to achieve their ends Bise Anne

You cite the example of Christine Boutin. She never called feminist and do not militate in NPA. It is at least consistent with his speech … Everyone knows that appear with a veil (or a cross or a yarmulke) when claims have responsibilities policies is not innocent. "Stop" to veil the face ", the term seems well chosen …

Let's do it very well … the NPA was credited in the previous survey to 4.8% of voting intentions. Today, it is just over 3% … Another few days and it may well disappear!

You say "Muslim, secular and feminist .." I would say: "Muslim, secular, communist and feminist …" I do not understand how a communist list may participate in a religion in its policy, as for memory , according to Karl, the brain is the material that self-consciousness (and also a lot of imagination I would say). Especially as it was in communist countries found the least disparity between rights, employment of women and men. With these irresponsible, radical Islam now has one foot in politics in this country. I call it treason. An attempted solicitation which will eventually sink the party. Because it's like that, I scratched my list of nice people. Voila, it said.

This is purely a provocation and not smart politics.

What shocks me is that we can consider these connasses wearing a headscarf. But what shocks me even more is that prohibiting those connasses to wear a headscarf. But what worse, and what shocks me even more that what shocks me more is that we would use these connasses wearing a headscarf as an electoral argument.

… it must be nice down there … Hair enclosed in a scarf all day, hello fatty! argh !!!!!!!!!!!

personally, the media context. sounds a bit too pub.

The fact simply be manipulated by the NPA

I'm fed up, startled, disgusted to belong to a society such as ours. To hear women lamenting a miracle happened to them, hear doctors justify their actions, implied that the woman has the right to life and death of her baby, even without talking to the father of the child! see that the law is circumvented in any impunitée see the residue of the aborted fetus sucked into a tube, see that it is "normal" and completely unmarked "What do I give for not living in a society like ours. You who are watching, do you really banal abortion? Do not you think that this show was indecent? Finally, do not you think that the fetus is human and deserves better treatment? I do not question the "right to abortion", thank you not brought stereotyped response. Thanks for your answers, which reassured me a little about the presence of people who have the ability to have a reflection on what is on TV. saintegrrr: you speak of. Saintegrrr: you speak desfemmes treated as uterus on foot … how do you call a human fetus sucked into a tube? Incidentally, the figures are nevertheless instructive: 200 av 000 * / year (2007-1975) = 6 400 000 legal abortions … for the record: 5,185,000 Jews died in concentration camps … If you find it decent, we can not understand. Littles: my wife had a miscarriage at 10 weeks, Providence has made the fetus is released before the scheduled curettage out that involved well a little man with a head, 2 eyes, a mouth, 2 arms, fingers, a belly of one sex. I buried him, would you have thrown in the trash or in the office? This is not because we do not see "live" one can imagine that it is a cluster of cells as an abscess … In this show, we learn that abortion is reimbursed at 80% by secu (the rest by its mutual) … When I think of the price of childbirth … I remain bitter …. Finally, using "psychological" given to women who have aborted me. Finally, using "psychological" given to women who aborted leaves my speechless … Nobody cares about the state of a woman who made a CF (review of the ultrasound during the consultation for my wife: "I guess I died … Oh, I see you already have a daughter , you referez a) It has, however, marked our relationship for eternity. Malka: I am not a hunter, but I have some knowledge … I am not carnivorous but omnivorous … But you'll notice we do not kill animals that are fat … They are protected by law "natural" … No man …

people take too lightly abortion thin oh I'm pregnant, it's nothing I will abort ………. this is what we hear now and I think it will be worse worse

Would you have a link for those who do not have TV? Otherwise, I find your words very fair! ! "From this follows, of such emissions, the question" what is a person? Besides, I'll ask everyone to q / r.

g not find the show as indecent as his, I think the woman has the right to abortion ds some cases (rape, 1 bb ill, 1 err Youth …………. .) I believe that abortion is justified.

The right to premeditated crime against the fruit of his own entrails. I would not say anything more.

not had time, I was being circumcised my daughter and my son circumcised!

ahah, I love the final sentence, a total hypocrisy after Laius moralizing specific militant anti-abortion base … ) "What would I give for not living in a society like ours." Ben, your life, obviously, already, since you're here to t'offusquer a vested long struggle, during which each passing year generated a lot of dead on the kitchen tables, in equal proportions, neither more nor less, than those now at least do not let their lives. You seem to forget a little easier than what has made the legalization of abortion, it has never been to "trivialize abortion" but to stem the tide of death in illegal abortions. Finally we thought women as something other than bellies that just deserved to die if they were not fruitful! A short memory, eh? Heck, plus you're a guy, what am I doing here trying to make you understand the right to abortion if you did not already understood yourself?. A woman who does not want her pregnancy not just investing these cells, they remain for her cell without aucunepotentialité child unless we force and then take the incubator for Putôt that a woman have his body. Anyway you do not know what you mean, you do a classic propaganda and disconnected from the reality of abortion, I do not grant you any credit. As for the guy autree which occurs lower, like bin. It definitely makes me laugh quite yellow, those guys who would dictate our bellies. Load women like that then you do not even know what having to manage contraception and its failures, and that it is not you who might become pregnant, I think that's the real indecency on the subject of abortion, you see.

aggressive response: you do not want to live in a society like ours? I suggest the rope, or abuse of sleeping pills … In short, I'll overrule the aggressiveness of your question and try to answer you. No, I do not think the fetus is a human being. What is a human being? when it becomes if it is considered an egg in the ovary of our mother and a sperm during manufacturing are not a human being. At our first cry, cons, if there is human … So when is it? … When the sperm of our father has merged with the egg of our mother? ahhhh, there it is limited … but no … we do not mourn each miscarriage gone unnoticed, we do not consider that a cell is a human being … good, so when the cells divide? at what stage? how many cells? How many divisions? In fact, for me, and it is my business, it is a human petre when another human being you recognize as a fellow … when you're born, you're a human because all of society we. when you're born, you're a human, because any society nousreconnait … before … nobody saw us, so no one recognizes us … the embryo is a human petre is a possibility of being human. If unsuccessful, they speak no deaths, no birth certificate, so no death certificate … it has a separate status, because it can more or less strongly to become a human, but it is not … That's why, for example, in Japan, abortion is allowed up to 9 months! But you're right about one thing physicians do not have to justify their actions. They have the right to an abortion, they have a duty to help their patients to relieve their suffering, there is no justification for giving "No, a woman has no right to life and death over his baby. She has the right to refuse life to a cluster of cells that could one day live if she was willing to let him grow in his stomach … when the father, what right does it give? how to determine who is the father? what if a man claims to be the father and refused abortion and the pregnant woman says that it is not he?. when the father, what right does it give? how to determine who is the father? what if a man claims to be the father and refused abortion and the pregnant woman says that it is not he? you had obliged the woman keep the child? even if you're not sure the man in question is the father? and the same situation but the "father" in question requires abortion while the mother refuses? and if two men pretend father and want each other to keep abortion the fetus? And quite simply if man and woman does not agree that slice? Tradaitionnellement It turns out that, before the invention of paternity tests, men had a enoooorme freedom: that of not assume paternity "no, this child is not mine" and basta, no responsibility! It was therefore resolved: since only women have abortions and they could easily return to play only unwanted pregnancies, they only decide to abort or not! since it was invented paternity testing … and condoms!

saintegrrr and Littles have said everything! Tired of reactionaries …

I do not think this show was indecent … It showed the reality to a certain point of view …. It is true that there are abuses and even some commonplace but most women who resort to abortion do so for one reason only … After about whether the fetus should be considered a human being I think everyone is seeing things the way he feels …. Personally I am proud to live in a country where abortion is available and accessible … Of course he does not take lightly, it can have serious physical and psychological repercussions in the long term … I think everything depends on the importance of education for young people … They learn that is necessary to protect themselves and explain that abortion is not contraception … We will never prevent abuse is on but there are ways to limit this …. n It is my humble opinion and only my opinion …

Know, Môssieur that an abortion is not a pleasure, and never lived as something innocuous. There have always been abortions, legal or not. The law passed was intended to regulate things, avoiding many death and mutilation. The abortions have not increased since it is legal. This is not always "a miracle happens in us" to be pregnant, it can be experienced as a tragedy. And the drama of Women rarely that of his partner, I think few men have depression after the abortion of their girlfriend, or do become infertile for years, so it has traumatized! So it goes! Enough moralizing to 4 balls. PS: I just saw a consultant in your profile that you are a hunter warned, you do not find it "disgusting" and "staggering" to hunt down and kill innocent animals just for fun?

abortion is never commonplace for a woman that abortion is always a great psychological harm. but what right can we afford to consider abortion. an unborn child has a desire, not by rape or a perforated condom. a few weeks fetus has no consciousness, it is a cluster of cells, and its expectation that he will love that will be small. about Women were made for a humanity that is the owner of his body, so let him

What I find disgusting and pronfondemment indescent is to compare abortion to the Holocaust. No, I do not think the foeutus is human.

I have not watched the show … But I think that removing guilt of the company is responsible for the interchange of an act which should not be easy, or even refunded. Women are not animals, they are supposed to be free of their bodies? So why are they pregnant? They have at their disposal an arsenal of preventive measures (pill, IUD, condoms, abstinence, spermicides, etc.). " We should not have 200,000 abortions a year, as soon as the number of births "The fetus is a entitée apart in the womb. There is no set of cells from her mother (separation is the placenta). Abortion is commonplace, but they forget that the techniques employed are appalling, and the number of intervention has been aggravated since the legalization of 75. I would not be Mrs. Veil when she dies. stegrrrrr —————- you do not deserve the adjective human … Your status of "woman" do not you be a exceptionel, I. Your status of "woman" do not you be a exceptionel, I necomprends very little functioning human beings, and I realize you … not … in view of your remarks 70 years ago, I think you would have certainly been those who shed the Cyclon B. ..

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